Ramirez’ Place In Cleveland Baseball History

A few years ago, we wrote a piece talking about Francisco Lindor’s place in Cleveland baseball history if he were to play his entire career here, or at least a sizeable portion of it.

Well, we had the wrong player. Jose Ramirez is one of the best players in the game, and he wants to spend his entire career in a Cleveland uniform.

So, let’s look at some of the all time Cleveland counting stats and see where Ramirez will wind up statistically for the franchise.

The franchise leader in games played is Terry Turner, who played 1619 games with Cleveland, the last in 1919. Ramirez has played in 1026 as of today, and if he averages 140 games through the end of 2028 when his contract ends, he will surpass that total easily.

Napoleon Lajoie is the club’s all time leader in hits with 2047 and he last wore a Cleveland uniform in 1914. Ramirez has 1038 currently. Assuming he gets 100 more hits this season, he would need to get about 150 hits per season to pass the man the team was once named after.

Jim Thome’s 337 home runs is the current standard and Ramirez has belted 176 as of now, averaging almost 28 per season in the last five full seasons. After this season, the switch-hitting third baseman will need slightly over 20 homers a year to break the franchise mark.

As for RBIs, the all-time leader is Earl Averill with 1084 and Ramirez has 591 to date, averaging 90 a year in the last five full seasons. At that pace, he will pass Averill, but as we know that depends on his teammates and other teams choosing to pitch to him.

Averill is also the leader in total bases (3200) with Ramirez currently at 1885. Jose has averaged 290 total bases in the last five full seasons, so he should pass the 2000 mark before the end of this season.

Keep in mind using the last five full seasons includes the 2016 season in which Ramirez only hit 11 homers and knocked in 76 runs. His power surge started the following season when he belted 29 dingers.

Ramirez has 256 career doubles and the franchise leader is also the all time in this department, Tris Speaker, who had 486 of his two-baggers in a Cleveland uniform. Ramirez gets a lot of hustle doubles because of his speed, but his total has dipped since he started belting balls over the fence.

He had a league leading 56 in 2017, but the past few seasons, he’s been around 30-35. At that pace, he gets in the top five all time, but no higher.

In terms of WAR, Ramirez is already in 10th place at 36.9, and at the pace his current season is on, he will likely be 9th by the end of this season, passing the aforementioned Turner. Being conservative, he will be in the top five in franchise history during the 2024 assuming he stays healthy.

Many of Cleveland’s all time leaders in these counting statistics come either from the 90’s teams (like Thome) or more than 80 years ago, so it will be refreshing to see Ramirez’ name at the top.

No doubt he will be one of the greatest, if not THE greatest player to ever wear a Cleveland baseball outfit.

You are witnessing one of the best ever here.

What Lindor Could Be If Tribe Kept Him

While much has been written about Francisco Lindor and the willingness or feasibility of the Cleveland Indians signing him to a long term contract, we would like to look at the historical aspect of the Tribe’s shortstop in terms of statistics.

Our thought is if Lindor would play in Cleveland for 10 years, he would be considered the greatest position player in franchise history.

Let’s examine in terms of the numbers, saying the Indians and Lindor can come to an agreement to keep him here for five more years, although that seems to be a long shot.

Lindor has played with the Indians for five seasons already, although his first season consisted of only 99 games.

If he played an average of 150 games over the next five seasons, that would put him at 1467 games, just short of 10th place all time (Omar Vizquel played in 1478).

Doubling his current hit total of 835 (giving him 1670), would rank him 7th of the Tribe’s all-time list just behind Lou Boudreau’s 1706.

If we do the same thing with his other numbers, which probably isn’t fair to Lindor considering he is just 26 and entering the prime of his career, here is where he falls on Cleveland’s all time record list.

He would have 356 doubles, which would rank 6th in club history, again behind Boudreau’s 367. He would have 2866 total bases, 3rd all time behind Earl Averill and Tris Speaker.

His 260 home runs would rank #2 in team history, just behind Jim Thome’s 337, and his 768 RBI would put him 9th all time between Larry Doby and Albert Belle.

We probably aren’t being fair with the RBI stat because Lindor has spent much of the last two seasons hitting leadoff, and he may wind up hitting lower in the order, perhaps as early as this season.

He would have 956 runs scored, putting him 4th, in between Kenny Lofton and Charlie Jamieson, behind only Lofton, probably the greatest leadoff hitter in Indians’ history, and Hall of Famers Averill and Speaker.

Lindor’s stolen base total would be 7th, although if he hits lower in the order, our guess is he would be running less often.

From the advanced metrics standpoint, Lindor has accumulated a 28.6 WAR in his first five seasons, so doubling that would be 57.2, ranking him 4th behind a trio of Hall of Fame players in Nap Lajoie, Speaker, and Boudreau.

That total includes last year’s 4.7 WAR, the lowest since his rookie season. In 2018, the shortstop put up a 7.9 WAR. So, although he probably can’t catch Lajoie and Speaker, passing Boudreau is doable.

Again, we are probably figuring on the low side for Lindor based on the reduced games played in his rookie year, and that he still hasn’t reached his prime years.

However, at even this pace, we are talking about a Hall of Fame talent, provided he stays healthy, and if not the best Cleveland player ever, he’s in the top five.

So, when people say the management can’t or shouldn’t sign the shortstop long term, you are going to miss years of one of the greatest players ever to wear a uniform here.

Wouldn’t it have been nice to watch Kenny Lofton or Jim Thome here for his whole career. To us, it’s galling we have to share Thome’s legacy with Philadelphia or Chicago.

The Cleveland front office should take that sort of thing into consideration, and so should the fan base.

Keeping Lindor Should Be Tribe’s Priority

Earlier this week, Major League Baseball announced a television broadcast contract extension with Fox, which will pay each team an additional $24 million starting in 2022.

Coincidentally, the Indians’ Francisco Lindor is eligible for free agency following the 2021 season. So, we’ve found a good way for the Indians to spend that extra TV money.

We have pounded the drum on this for the past few years. If you can keep Lindor with the Indians for a total of at least ten seasons, or through the 2024 campaign (when he will be 31 years old), we will become universally recognized as the best position player ever to don a Cleveland baseball uniform.

Lindor currently has accumulated 23.9 WAR over his four years with the Indians. The all time franchise leader is Napoleon Lajoie with 79.9. The recently turned 25 year old shortstop had 7.9 WAR in 2018, and at his age, it would not be a stretch to think he will improve for the next several years.

So, let’s say he averages 9.0 WAR over the next six years. That would get him to 77.9 for his career, very close to Lajoie’s total, and ahead of Tris Speaker for second place.

However, this statistic has Kenny Lofton 4th in club history. We loved Lofton as a player, and believe he should have received serious Hall of Fame consideration, but he’s not the fourth best position player in team history.

Let’s look at traditional statistics.

Lindor has 665 base hits currently, getting 183 a year ago. If he averages 180 over the next six years, he would have 1745 knocks, which would rank 5th on the Indians’ all time list.

Home runs? The switch-hitting Lindor has 98 dingers to date. Averaging 30 through the 2024 season would give him 278 homers, second in club history behind recently inducted Hall of Famer Jim Thome. Keep in mind, Lindor has hit more than 30 in each of the last two years.

As for RBIs, Frankie is sitting at 310, getting 92 last year. If he averages 90 through ’24, that would give him 850, tying him for 7th with Ken Keltner in Indians’ annals.

Our guess is Lindor will be moved down in the batting order as soon as this year to take advantage of his pop, so that estimate might be conservative.

And in runs scored, Lindor has 377 runs, scoring 129 in 2018. Averaging 100 per year for the next six seasons would give him 977 tallies, putting him 3rd on the Tribe’s all time list.

So, as you can see, keeping Lindor for ten seasons puts him near the top in most of the major categories in Indians’ history. And we were conservative with some of the numbers because, so he might rank higher.

Keeping him beyond that, or dare say, for his entire career would probably put him at the top of those lists.

Also, at 25, and with just three full big league seasons under his belt, he has three top 10 MVP finishes.

We understand it takes two to tango, and Lindor has to want to stay here for awhile. But we say make it worth his while.

The big contracts this off-season will be Bryce Harper and Manny Machado. Once those deals are agreed to, the Tribe front office should have a good idea of what it will take to sign the shortstop.

We don’t want to hear about being a small to mid market in this case. Lindor is one of the top ten, if not five players in baseball. If you have to go over your comfort level to keep him, you have to do it.

You drafted and signed this guy, and watched him become a great player. They need to make sure he never plays anywhere else.

And your fan base deserves a player who never plays anywhere else too.