Memories Of Manny On Going Into The Cleveland Hall Of Fame

We happened to be in Minnesota on September 2, 1993 when a 21-year-old outfielder drafted just two years earlier made his major league debut.

Manny Ramirez, the Indians’ first round pick that year, arrived in the big leagues after hitting .333 with 31 HR and 115 RBIs at Canton-Akron (AA) and Charlotte (AAA). Ramirez, batting sixth, ahead of another young player, Jim Thome, went 0 for 4.

Thome, of course is in the Hall of Fame, something Ramirez will never do because of his ties to PEDs, but tonight, the Cleveland baseball team put Ramirez into their Hall of Fame, and the memories we have of him are plentiful.

Ramirez opened the season and then Jacobs Field in Cleveland in ’94 and had a game tying hit in late in the season opener. He hit 17 home runs and knocked in 60 in the strike shortened season in 91 games.

In 1995, he emerged as one of the game’s top sluggers, hitting .308 with 31 dingers and 107 ribbies, starting a stretch where he drove in 100 or more runs 12 times in 14 years.

He was an RBI guy. Granted, he spent a good period of time hitting behind Kenny Lofton, Omar Vizquel, and Roberto Alomar in the batting order, but he seemed to understand that hitting a groundball to second with a man on 3rd in the first inning got a run home. He didn’t try to hit one 400 feet.

He also would take the single to right-center to score runners. Playing with good hitters and having that mindset is how you have five seasons where you drive in 125 or more runs.

We were in attendance in 1999 when Ramirez homered to knock in his 163rd run of the season, breaking Hal Trosky’s club record of 162 which had stood since 1936. He finished the season with 165.

The last time anyone in baseball history had knocked in more than that was 1938, when Jimmie Foxx drove in 175 runners. Sammy Sosa came closest to that figure in 2001, collecting 160 RBI.

We were also there on a July day in 1995 (July 16th to be exact) when Ramirez hit a game winning homer against Oakland, off of Hall of Famer Dennis Eckersley (also a former Indian). Eckersley was videoed saying “wow” when the ball reached the seats. He couldn’t believe someone had hit that pitch out of the park.

We watched a game in Yankee Stadium when Ramirez hit a line drive that we think the second baseman had a bead on but sailed over the fence in right-center. It was like he took out a driver and hit a golf ball.

We were also there on October 1, 2000, when pending free agent Ramirez, in what turned out to be his last at-bat as an Indian, homered off Blue Jay reliever John Frascatore. He received a curtain, and with new owner Larry Dolan in attendance, fans were yelling to his suite to keep the slugger in Cleveland.

To be fair, Dolan put together a great offer, and we went to bed on a Sunday night (we think it was Sunday) during the Winter Meetings hearing the great Peter Gammons report that it looked like Ramirez was going to stay in Cleveland.

Of course, the Red Sox swooped in at the last minute was signed him.

It was always reported that when Boston visited here during the regular season, Ramirez would remark that it was good to be home.

That’s the player the Indians/Guardians are honoring tonight. To our eyes, he’s the best right-handed hitter we’ve ever seen. Combining power and average.

In his eight seasons in Cleveland, he batted .313 with 236 home runs and a 998 OPS. That latter figure is a club record. He’s third all-time in home runs (Thome and Albert Belle) and eighth in runs batted in.

We know what happened later in his career, starting with the whole “Manny being Manny” stuff. But what a hitter. It was great to witness some great moments in his career.

What Lindor Could Be If Tribe Kept Him

While much has been written about Francisco Lindor and the willingness or feasibility of the Cleveland Indians signing him to a long term contract, we would like to look at the historical aspect of the Tribe’s shortstop in terms of statistics.

Our thought is if Lindor would play in Cleveland for 10 years, he would be considered the greatest position player in franchise history.

Let’s examine in terms of the numbers, saying the Indians and Lindor can come to an agreement to keep him here for five more years, although that seems to be a long shot.

Lindor has played with the Indians for five seasons already, although his first season consisted of only 99 games.

If he played an average of 150 games over the next five seasons, that would put him at 1467 games, just short of 10th place all time (Omar Vizquel played in 1478).

Doubling his current hit total of 835 (giving him 1670), would rank him 7th of the Tribe’s all-time list just behind Lou Boudreau’s 1706.

If we do the same thing with his other numbers, which probably isn’t fair to Lindor considering he is just 26 and entering the prime of his career, here is where he falls on Cleveland’s all time record list.

He would have 356 doubles, which would rank 6th in club history, again behind Boudreau’s 367. He would have 2866 total bases, 3rd all time behind Earl Averill and Tris Speaker.

His 260 home runs would rank #2 in team history, just behind Jim Thome’s 337, and his 768 RBI would put him 9th all time between Larry Doby and Albert Belle.

We probably aren’t being fair with the RBI stat because Lindor has spent much of the last two seasons hitting leadoff, and he may wind up hitting lower in the order, perhaps as early as this season.

He would have 956 runs scored, putting him 4th, in between Kenny Lofton and Charlie Jamieson, behind only Lofton, probably the greatest leadoff hitter in Indians’ history, and Hall of Famers Averill and Speaker.

Lindor’s stolen base total would be 7th, although if he hits lower in the order, our guess is he would be running less often.

From the advanced metrics standpoint, Lindor has accumulated a 28.6 WAR in his first five seasons, so doubling that would be 57.2, ranking him 4th behind a trio of Hall of Fame players in Nap Lajoie, Speaker, and Boudreau.

That total includes last year’s 4.7 WAR, the lowest since his rookie season. In 2018, the shortstop put up a 7.9 WAR. So, although he probably can’t catch Lajoie and Speaker, passing Boudreau is doable.

Again, we are probably figuring on the low side for Lindor based on the reduced games played in his rookie year, and that he still hasn’t reached his prime years.

However, at even this pace, we are talking about a Hall of Fame talent, provided he stays healthy, and if not the best Cleveland player ever, he’s in the top five.

So, when people say the management can’t or shouldn’t sign the shortstop long term, you are going to miss years of one of the greatest players ever to wear a uniform here.

Wouldn’t it have been nice to watch Kenny Lofton or Jim Thome here for his whole career. To us, it’s galling we have to share Thome’s legacy with Philadelphia or Chicago.

The Cleveland front office should take that sort of thing into consideration, and so should the fan base.

More On The Lindor Scenario…

It has already started.

Soon after the New York Yankees lost the American League Championship Series, a column in the New York Post advocated the Yankees should try and get Francisco Lindor from the Cleveland Indians.

A week later, it was reported the Los Angeles Dodgers have interest in the four time all star.

And all over northeast Ohio, it is becoming a weekly debate. Should the Tribe deal Lindor now, so his new team has him for two seasons, therefore giving up more for him, or should the Indians go into the season with their best player, and try to win the World Series in 2020?

The possibility of signing Lindor is not even considered, and we have debated that point enough over the past year. To summarize, that is ludicrous.

Most fans and media alike seem to think dealing Lindor for three or four “stud” minor league prospects would enable the Tribe to just keep on winning year in and year out.

Because, after all, no super prospect ever flames out once they reach the big league level, nor do they ever become just average major league players.

And the Washington Nationals just showed you can let your superstar player go and still win, right? That, of course, ignores the fact the Nats had Juan Soto up last year at 19 years old, and he is probably better than Bryce Harper, who signed with the Phillies.

We will let you in on another secret…Lindor is a better player than the much hyped and ballyhooed Harper. Although Harper won the NL MVP in 2015 at age 22, that’s his only top 10 finish.

Lindor has three top 10 finishes in the American League, and most rankings have Lindor in the top 10 of all major league players, while Harper falls in between 11 and 20.

It is difficult to believe that Frankie has only played four full seasons with the Indians, so if he is moved this winter, that’s all Cleveland fans get.

It makes you think about the odd decision to leave the shortstop in the minor leagues the first half of the ’15 season was a pretty terrible one, no?

Especially when you would deal him before his ages 27-29 seasons, the time when a player is truly in his prime. The Indians would not get the benefit of those years.

There is a reason that Sandy Alomar Jr., Jim Thome, and Omar Vizquel are still revered by Indians’ fans almost 20 years after they began the career here.

Alomar spent 11 seasons here (1990-2000), while Vizquel was here for the same amount of time (1994-2004), and although Thome had some cups of coffee here before the Indians became contenders, he was a regular from 1994 through 2002.

That’s why we always say (and feel) if Lindor can play here for 10 years, he will be considered the greatest everyday player in franchise history. And there should be value in that for the teams’ owners.

Now, if Lindor says he will not consider a long term deal here, then this is all moot. The Tribe should keep him this year and move him afterwards, unless they get players who can help this season.

They cannot take a step backwards and go into a rebuilding mode.

We do believe Lindor would like to stay, but he wants to be paid like one of the game’s best players. There shouldn’t be an issue with that, especially because a five year extension would keep him here through age 30, and he should still be putting up excellent numbers.

If the Indians can get three highly ranked prospects and they all reach their potential, that would be great, correct? However, what if the prospects turn out to be average or busts?

No one thinks about that possibility.

Tribe Fans Get To Celebrate A Hall Of Famer

It has been so long since a position player who played the majority of his career as a Cleveland Indian was voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame by the writers, you would have had to have seen Lou Boudreau patrolling shortstop for the Tribe in the 1940’s.

And you thought the 52 year championship drought was a long time.

Boudreau was inducted into Cooperstown in 1970, so it has been 48 years until Jim Thome was voted yesterday into the Hall.

And make no mistake, Thome is a Cleveland Indian through and through.

The powerful left-handed hitter played 1399 of his games (out of 2543) as a Tribesman, hit 337 of his 612 home runs as an Indian, and knocked in 939 of his 1699 runs here.

For comparison, his next highest total for another team would be 529 games, 134 homers, and 362 RBIs as a Chicago White Sox player.

Thome is 8th all time in home runs, 26th in runs batted in, 7th in walks, 23rd in slugging percentage, and 18th in OPS.

Among the active players he is ahead of in the latter statistic are Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols, who everyone regards as the most feared offensive players of today.

For those of you who still hold a grudge against Thome for leaving via free agency following the 2002 season, get over yourselves. You witnessed greatness, and you should appreciate that at the very least.

Think about it, from the team Boudreau left the Indians after the 1950 season until Thome made his debut on September 4, 1991, northeast Ohio fans didn’t get a chance to see a truly great player on an everyday basis.

True, we got to see Frank Robinson at the end of his career, Dave Winfield too, and Roberto Alomar spend three seasons at Jacobs Field, but all three had their best year’s elsewhere.

NOTE: Larry Doby played in Cleveland until 1955 and spent the ’58 season here too, but he was voted into Cooperstown by the Veterans’ Committee.

Cleveland fans have seen great pitching too, with Gaylord Perry, Dennis Eckersley, and Bert Blyleven taking the mound here for the good guys, but the last hurler who spent the majority of his career here was Bob Lemon, who was inducted in 1976.

Thome was here when Jacobs Field opened in 1994, he was part of the first Indians’ team to make the post-season since 1954. Heck, he caught the pop up that clinched the Central Division title in 1995.

He hit four home runs in that post-season.

He moved from third base to first base in 1997 when the Tribe traded for Matt Williams, and in game five of the ALDS against the Yankees, the deciding game, had a sacrifice bunt (he had only one in the regular season for his entire career) which set up Cleveland’s fourth run in what turned out to be a 4-3 victory.

He also made a diving stop in the field and turned it into a force out.

He’s the Tribe’s all time leader in home runs, walks, strikeouts, and intentional walks.

We hope that someday Thome is joined in Cooperstown by Omar Vizquel, and the Veterans’ Committee will see fit to honor Albert Belle and Kenny Lofton, two other greats from those teams of the 1990’s.

For now, savor the memories that Thome provided Tribe fans. It’s been a long time since the franchise had a Hall of Fame player. So, it shouldn’t be taken lightly.

Thome In ’18, And Other Hall Of Fame Thoughts

A year from now, Cleveland Indians’ fans will be waiting for the results of the Baseball Hall of Fame voting with great anticipation.

Jim Thome will be eligible for the first time and with over 600 home runs in his career and not even any anecdotal connection to performance enhancing drugs, he should be a strong candidate to get elected next year.

He would be the first player to play the majority of his career in a Cleveland uniform since Larry Doby was inducted in 1998, and we believe he would be the first Indians to be elected by the baseball writers since Lou Boudreau in 1970.

It says a lot about the state of the franchise from 1960-1994 that it has been 46 years since the Tribe had a Hall of Famer that played to the Indians in the prime of his career.

Thome played 55% of his games with Cleveland, and coincidentally hit 55% of his 612 home runs in an Indians’ uniform. He also played every one of his games with the Tribe through age 31.

He belted 200 more long balls with the Indians than he did with any other team.

Omar Vizquel will also be eligible for the first time, although he likely will not get in on his first year on the ballot.

The shortstop, best known for his defense, won 11 Gold Gloves and managed to get 2877 hits in his long career. He was a solid offensive player through age 39 with the Giants when he hit .295 with a 749 OPS.

With Trevor Hoffman and Vlad Guerrero just missing enshrinement this year and Chipper Jones being eligible for the first time along with Thome, it may be tough for all four to make it into the Hall.

That makes it doubly tough for Vizquel in 2018.

As for yesterday’s results, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens received over 50% of the vote for the first time, and only three players who attained that level did not finally get into Cooperstown.

Many experts are saying the increase is due to younger voters, who didn’t cover the game in the “Steroid Era”.

Our opinion is they should talk to the writers who did cover the sport then and talk about what happened. This is a situation where the statistics do not tell the entire story.

We weren’t alive when Lincoln was assassinated, but we know what happened. Not doing the research is not doing your due diligence.

Those players blatantly cheated, and we understand some players who used may already be enshrined, like Ivan Rodriguez and Jeff Bagwell. We would not have voted for Pudge, who was mentioned in Jose Canseco’s book.

There is nothing that concrete on Bagwell.

After watching the last installment of Ken Burns’ documentary on the game, which addresses the best hitter and pitcher of that generation using PEDs, we can’t understand how anyone could vote for either after watching.

And yes, they were great players before they took performance enhancers, but that doesn’t mean you should overlook that they used.

What they did wasn’t fair to the players who didn’t use, and their accomplishments have hindered the candidacies of players like Fred McGriff, Jeff Kent, and Mike Mussina.

Hopefully, a year from now, we will have cause to celebrate Jim Thome, the first true Tribe player in a generation to make the Hall of Fame.

Another thing many of us have never seen in our lifetime.